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frank1492
Guest
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 Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:52 am Post subject: Removing a Frozen Bolt with Heat |
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There is a stainless steel bolt (about 3/16 diam) that
is threaded into the center of the motor shaft in an old
dishwasher that I am repairing. In order to remove the
impeller and other parts for replacement, it was necessary
to unscrew the bolt. Having no success, I ground the head
off, thinking I could then liberally apply penetrating oil and
eventually get the bolt out by turning it with a vice-grip.
Despite numerous oil applications and twisting to the
breaking point, the bolt has refused to unscrew.
It is very important that the bolt not break off, as it
would be very difficult for me to redrill the hole concentrically.
Would it be worth trying to heat the bolt with a propane
torch? How should this be done, and what would the risks
be? Would there be increased risk of shearing the bolt off
after heating (assuming it still won't yield at the threads)?
Your advice is appreciated. I will tell you that I do have
a backup plan to extend the bolt length with a collar, but
this is not optimal as it will require enlarging the center hole
on the impeller and other problems. (This of course assumes
the current bolt remains unbroken.)
Thanks very much. (Don't hesitate to recommend the
backup plan if you really feel that it's the best route.)
Frank |
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Edwin Pawlowski
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:56 am Post subject: Re: Removing a Frozen Bolt with Heat |
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"frank1492" <frank1492@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
| Quote: | Having no success, I ground the head
off, thinking I could then liberally apply penetrating oil and
eventually get the bolt out by turning it with a vice-grip.
|
At least you learned a lesson
| Quote: | Would it be worth trying to heat the bolt with a propane
torch? How should this be done, and what would the risks
be?
|
Just heat the heck out of it and then try the vice grips again. Get it as
hot as possible and aim the flame right at the bold.
| Quote: | Would there be increased risk of shearing the bolt off
after heating (assuming it still won't yield at the threads)?
|
No. Heating is pretty reliable as long as you don't burn anything around
it. |
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Grandpa Koca
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Removing a Frozen Bolt with Heat |
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frank1492 wrote:
| Quote: | There is a stainless steel bolt (about 3/16 diam) that
is threaded into the center of the motor shaft in an old
dishwasher that I am repairing. In order to remove the
impeller and other parts for replacement, it was necessary
to unscrew the bolt. Having no success, I ground the head
off, thinking I could then liberally apply penetrating oil and
eventually get the bolt out by turning it with a vice-grip.
Despite numerous oil applications and twisting to the
breaking point, the bolt has refused to unscrew.
It is very important that the bolt not break off, as it
would be very difficult for me to redrill the hole concentrically.
Would it be worth trying to heat the bolt with a propane
torch? How should this be done, and what would the risks
be? Would there be increased risk of shearing the bolt off
after heating (assuming it still won't yield at the threads)?
Your advice is appreciated. I will tell you that I do have
a backup plan to extend the bolt length with a collar, but
this is not optimal as it will require enlarging the center hole
on the impeller and other problems. (This of course assumes
the current bolt remains unbroken.)
Thanks very much. (Don't hesitate to recommend the
backup plan if you really feel that it's the best route.)
Frank
|
Just for grins, are you sure its not reverse threaded? Been there, done
that.
--
Grandpa Koca - SAHD for 6 - Keeper of the Perpetual Kindergarten
My opinion is neither copyrighted nor trademarked. It is price
competitive. If you like, I'll trade for one of yours. |
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MilkyWhy
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Removing a Frozen Bolt with Heat |
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go to hardware store and buy an "easy out". I frankly have not had much luck
with them. But...you're pretty much down to that. |
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Dean Hoffman
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: Removing a Frozen Bolt with Heat |
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On 1/16/05 10:52 PM, in article abgmu0drcip9cm6pu6bfi5feoj4lfhsr5i@4ax.com,
"frank1492" <frank1492@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
| Quote: | There is a stainless steel bolt (about 3/16 diam) that
is threaded into the center of the motor shaft in an old
dishwasher that I am repairing. In order to remove the
impeller and other parts for replacement, it was necessary
to unscrew the bolt. Having no success, I ground the head
off, thinking I could then liberally apply penetrating oil and
eventually get the bolt out by turning it with a vice-grip.
Despite numerous oil applications and twisting to the
breaking point, the bolt has refused to unscrew.
It is very important that the bolt not break off, as it
would be very difficult for me to redrill the hole concentrically.
Would it be worth trying to heat the bolt with a propane
torch? How should this be done, and what would the risks
be? Would there be increased risk of shearing the bolt off
after heating (assuming it still won't yield at the threads)?
|
Some cut.
You need to heat the motor shaft instead of the bolt. The idea is to
expand the shaft so it will release the bolt. It might help to heat the
shaft then dump water on it to cool it rapidly. Reheat it, then try to
unscrew the bolt.
Propane might not be a hot enough fuel. I'm used to using an acetylene
torch for these type problems. There is something called a mapp gas torch
that is fairly cheap and would produce a hotter flame than propane.
Dean
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frank1492
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Removing a Frozen Bolt with Heat |
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Thanks all for your kind advice. As to the reverse thread,
I knew that was a possibility, but I can see threads so know it's
RH. Plus I have a new original parts bolt ready to go.
As for heating the motor shaft, I know that's the way
to go, but the visible part is very short and I feel I would
be heating other stuff that I didn't want to, especially to
get it hot enough to do any good. Guess I'm just a wimp..
As for heating the bolt itself (feel comfortable doing that),
why wouldn't that do SOME good? I'd reason that the bolt
would expand initially and compress the crap (rust from the
motor shaft), then after cooling the crap might not cause
it to bind as much. Myth or reality?
I will mull over everything you've all said. But when all
is said and done, looks like I will be putting my old Atlas
metal lathe to work!
Will keep y'all posted. Thanks again!
Frank
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 04:52:08 GMT, frank1492
<frank1492@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
| Quote: | There is a stainless steel bolt (about 3/16 diam) that
is threaded into the center of the motor shaft in an old
dishwasher that I am repairing. In order to remove the
impeller and other parts for replacement, it was necessary
to unscrew the bolt. Having no success, I ground the head
off, thinking I could then liberally apply penetrating oil and
eventually get the bolt out by turning it with a vice-grip.
Despite numerous oil applications and twisting to the
breaking point, the bolt has refused to unscrew.
It is very important that the bolt not break off, as it
would be very difficult for me to redrill the hole concentrically.
Would it be worth trying to heat the bolt with a propane
torch? How should this be done, and what would the risks
be? Would there be increased risk of shearing the bolt off
after heating (assuming it still won't yield at the threads)?
Your advice is appreciated. I will tell you that I do have
a backup plan to extend the bolt length with a collar, but
this is not optimal as it will require enlarging the center hole
on the impeller and other problems. (This of course assumes
the current bolt remains unbroken.)
Thanks very much. (Don't hesitate to recommend the
backup plan if you really feel that it's the best route.)
Frank |
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Noozer
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: Removing a Frozen Bolt with Heat |
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| Quote: | Despite numerous oil applications and twisting to the
breaking point, the bolt has refused to unscrew.
|
Are you turning it the right way? |
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Charlie Bress
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Removing a Frozen Bolt with Heat |
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"frank1492" <frank1492@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:1vfnu055oc5k5ctij11u52pi18sg6qofuj@4ax.com...
| Quote: | Thanks all for your kind advice. As to the reverse thread,
I knew that was a possibility, but I can see threads so know it's
RH. Plus I have a new original parts bolt ready to go.
As for heating the motor shaft, I know that's the way
to go, but the visible part is very short and I feel I would
be heating other stuff that I didn't want to, especially to
get it hot enough to do any good. Guess I'm just a wimp..
As for heating the bolt itself (feel comfortable doing that),
why wouldn't that do SOME good? I'd reason that the bolt
would expand initially and compress the crap (rust from the
motor shaft), then after cooling the crap might not cause
it to bind as much. Myth or reality?
I will mull over everything you've all said. But when all
is said and done, looks like I will be putting my old Atlas
metal lathe to work!
Will keep y'all posted. Thanks again!
Frank
|
If you can't get heat to the shaft, try holding an ice cube to the head of
the bolt.
That might give you enough shrinkage.
Another approach is to rap the head the head of the bolt sharply with a
light hammer to free up any internal crap in the hole.
And of course there are various lubricants designed to seep in and loosen
tight fittings.
And finally as I type this the thought comes to mind that there may be
something like Loctite to keep the bolt from backing out. If that is the
case heat will loosen it.
Charlie |
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Duane Bozarth
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Removing a Frozen Bolt with Heat |
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frank1492 wrote:
| Quote: |
There is a stainless steel bolt ... ("growed" in)...
|
Sounds like a case of stainless galling, perhaps. SS is notorious for
that if overtorqued w/o a lube.
Others have suggested I can only support directed heat at the shaft
around the bolt shaft, assuming you can get to it. Alternatively, you
<might> try putting the whole thing in the deep freeze overnight and see
if the differential thermal expansion will help. Applying heat while
cold may help, but you'll need more than propane to do any good, I
suspect. The cat's meow would have been to use an impact driver while
you still had the head, but that's over with now...  |
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PrecisionMachinisT
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: Removing a Frozen Bolt with Heat |
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"frank1492" <frank1492@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:1vfnu055oc5k5ctij11u52pi18sg6qofuj@4ax.com...
| Quote: | Thanks all for your kind advice. As to the reverse thread,
I knew that was a possibility, but I can see threads so know it's
RH. Plus I have a new original parts bolt ready to go.
As for heating the motor shaft, I know that's the way
to go, but the visible part is very short and I feel I would
be heating other stuff that I didn't want to, especially to
get it hot enough to do any good. Guess I'm just a wimp..
As for heating the bolt itself (feel comfortable doing that),
why wouldn't that do SOME good? I'd reason that the bolt
would expand initially and compress the crap (rust from the
motor shaft), then after cooling the crap might not cause
it to bind as much. Myth or reality?
I will mull over everything you've all said. But when all
is said and done, looks like I will be putting my old Atlas
metal lathe to work!
Will keep y'all posted. Thanks again!
Frank
|
Heat with a torch, then spray it liberally with wd 40 while its good and
hot--on contraction / cooling, it will draw the vapor into the thread
interface.........this should not only break the bond, but also will turn
the "crud" into a sort of "grease", thus lubricating the threads.
--
SVL |
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Duane Bozarth
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:54 pm Post subject: Re: Removing a Frozen Bolt with Heat |
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Mastermech wrote:
| Quote: |
I fear that heating the bolt of shaft may ruin the motor as the heat
transfers to other parts. I would suggest getting a few left hand drill
bits. Yes they do make them. Try to drill the bolt out with them starting
with a small bit and increasing to a larger one as you go. Try to start in
the center. I have had great luck using a left handed bit. Most times the
bit will grab and unscrew the offending bolt for you. In cases when it does
not (this is where starting in the center sure helps) I drill to the point
where I have a very thin amount of bolt material left and use a punch to
bend the bolt inward and pull it out. Running a tap as a final step to clean
up the threads.
Good Luck
JRE
|
That's a danger, certainly, but if he uses <hot> flame w/ small tip, it
can normally be done.
Problem is, it's SS and may be too hard...but it is worth a try... |
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Mastermech
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:04 pm Post subject: Re: Removing a Frozen Bolt with Heat |
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I fear that heating the bolt of shaft may ruin the motor as the heat
transfers to other parts. I would suggest getting a few left hand drill
bits. Yes they do make them. Try to drill the bolt out with them starting
with a small bit and increasing to a larger one as you go. Try to start in
the center. I have had great luck using a left handed bit. Most times the
bit will grab and unscrew the offending bolt for you. In cases when it does
not (this is where starting in the center sure helps) I drill to the point
where I have a very thin amount of bolt material left and use a punch to
bend the bolt inward and pull it out. Running a tap as a final step to clean
up the threads.
Good Luck
JRE |
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Stormin Mormon
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: Removing a Frozen Bolt with Heat |
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I was also going to suggest Mapp. Much hotter than propane.
Also: Heat the shaft, then spray a tiny bit of water on the bolt. Goal being
to cool the bolt. Then try loosen with vise grips on the bolt, and
channelocks on the shaft.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com
"Dean Hoffman" <dh0496@INinVALebrasIDka.com> wrote in message
news:BE111164.69DD0%
You need to heat the motor shaft instead of the bolt. The idea is to
expand the shaft so it will release the bolt. It might help to heat the
shaft then dump water on it to cool it rapidly. Reheat it, then try to
unscrew the bolt.
Propane might not be a hot enough fuel. I'm used to using an acetylene
torch for these type problems. There is something called a mapp gas torch
that is fairly cheap and would produce a hotter flame than propane.
Dean |
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Pop
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:33 am Post subject: Re: Removing a Frozen Bolt with Heat |
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Grandpa Koca wrote:
| Quote: | frank1492 wrote:
There is a stainless steel bolt (about 3/16 diam) that
is threaded into the center of the motor shaft in an old
dishwasher that I am repairing. In order to remove the
impeller and other parts for replacement, it was necessary
to unscrew the bolt. Having no success, I ground the head
off, thinking I could then liberally apply penetrating oil and
eventually get the bolt out by turning it with a vice-grip.
Despite numerous oil applications and twisting to the
breaking point, the bolt has refused to unscrew.
It is very important that the bolt not break off, as it
would be very difficult for me to redrill the hole
concentrically.
Would it be worth trying to heat the bolt with a propane
torch? How should this be done, and what would the risks
be? Would there be increased risk of shearing the bolt off
after heating (assuming it still won't yield at the threads)?
Your advice is appreciated. I will tell you that I do
have
a backup plan to extend the bolt length with a collar, but
this is not optimal as it will require enlarging the center
hole
on the impeller and other problems. (This of course assumes
the current bolt remains unbroken.)
Thanks very much. (Don't hesitate to recommend the
backup plan if you really feel that it's the best route.)
Frank
Just for grins, are you sure its not reverse threaded? Been
there,
done that.
|
Not only that, but sometimes trying to "tighten" a stuck bolt
like that will also loosen the crud enough to let it break free
even if it's not RT. And if it is, well, you find out <g>,
usually.
Pop |
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Pop
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:35 am Post subject: Re: Removing a Frozen Bolt with Heat |
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Dean Hoffman wrote:
| Quote: | On 1/16/05 10:52 PM, in article
abgmu0drcip9cm6pu6bfi5feoj4lfhsr5i@4ax.com, "frank1492"
frank1492@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
There is a stainless steel bolt (about 3/16 diam) that
is threaded into the center of the motor shaft in an old
dishwasher that I am repairing. In order to remove the
impeller and other parts for replacement, it was necessary
to unscrew the bolt. Having no success, I ground the head
off, thinking I could then liberally apply penetrating oil and
eventually get the bolt out by turning it with a vice-grip.
Despite numerous oil applications and twisting to the
breaking point, the bolt has refused to unscrew.
It is very important that the bolt not break off, as it
would be very difficult for me to redrill the hole
concentrically.
Would it be worth trying to heat the bolt with a propane
torch? How should this be done, and what would the risks
be? Would there be increased risk of shearing the bolt off
after heating (assuming it still won't yield at the threads)?
Some cut.
You need to heat the motor shaft instead of the bolt. The
idea is
to
expand the shaft so it will release the bolt. It might help
to heat
the
shaft then dump water on it to cool it rapidly. Reheat it,
then try
to
unscrew the bolt.
Propane might not be a hot enough fuel. I'm used to using an
acetylene
torch for these type problems. There is something called a
mapp gas
torch
that is fairly cheap and would produce a hotter flame than
propane.
Dean
|
Never found that to be a necessity, though it's faster heating.
It's also hot enough to do damage if one isn't careful, esp to
winding insulation, etc.,. even with propane. |
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