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Toller
Guest
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 Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:10 am Post subject: Why a laminated tiller handle? |
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The rudder/tiller on my Potter 15 is disintigrating, so I will be asking a
few questions on rebuilding it in the next few weeks.
The tiller handle is laminated wood, in a very slight S curve. It has
delaminated; and while I am now gluing it up with polyurethane glue, I think
it will have to be replaced in the long run.
It doesn't go over or under anything, so I don't see that the S curve is for
anything but maybe style. Can I make the new one straight? Is there
anycompelling reason it has to be laminated? I have a nice piece of very
old white oak I can use to cut a new one; will a solid white oak tiller
handle be inappropriate for any reason? Thanks. (I have a bandsaw, so
duplicating the curve would be easy enough, but I think it will weaken the
handle, unless there is a good reason for the curve.) |
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Bill
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:10 am Post subject: Re: Why a laminated tiller handle? |
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On Sep 7, 2:02 pm, "Toller" <Tol...@Yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | The rudder/tiller on my Potter 15 is disintigrating, so I will be asking a
few questions on rebuilding it in the next few weeks.
The tiller handle is laminated wood, in a very slight S curve. It has
delaminated; and while I am now gluing it up with polyurethane glue, I think
it will have to be replaced in the long run.
It doesn't go over or under anything, so I don't see that the S curve is for
anything but maybe style. Can I make the new one straight? Is there
anycompelling reason it has to be laminated? I have a nice piece of very
old white oak I can use to cut a new one; will a solid white oak tiller
handle be inappropriate for any reason? Thanks. (I have a bandsaw, so
duplicating the curve would be easy enough, but I think it will weaken the
handle, unless there is a good reason for the curve.)
|
I'm not sure about the curve but making it a laminate will allow you
to vary the grain pattern so that if and when it begins to warp it
will pull against itself and stay relatively straighter. You would
want to keep the grain going long ways but because it is still in a
circular pattern you flip one board over as compared to the previous.
I am sorry about the bad description on this. Someone else may have a
better one or even some wort of diagram to show you. |
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Lew Hodgett
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:10 am Post subject: Re: Why a laminated tiller handle? |
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"Toller" wrote:
| Quote: | The rudder/tiller on my Potter 15 is disintigrating, so I will be
asking a
few questions on rebuilding it in the next few weeks.
The tiller handle is laminated wood, in a very slight S curve. It
has
delaminated; and while I am now gluing it up with polyurethane glue,
I think
it will have to be replaced in the long run.
It doesn't go over or under anything, so I don't see that the S
curve is for
anything but maybe style.
Can I make the new one straight?
|
Yes, but it will look like ugly on an ape, and may not provide needed
clearances.
| Quote: | Is there
anycompelling reason it has to be laminated?
|
Yes.
Strength, appearance and resistance to warping.
| Quote: | I have a nice piece of very
old white oak I can use to cut a new one; will a solid white oak
tiller
handle be inappropriate for any reason?
|
Save that piece of white oak.
Get some Hondourous Mahogany and some Ash, and some epoxy.
Rip 1/4" thick strips.
Build a laminating jig.
Have fun.
Lew |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:11 am Post subject: Re: Why a laminated tiller handle? |
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On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 21:02:11 GMT, "Toller" <Toller@Yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | The rudder/tiller on my Potter 15 is disintigrating, so I will be asking a
few questions on rebuilding it in the next few weeks.
The tiller handle is laminated wood, in a very slight S curve. It has
delaminated; and while I am now gluing it up with polyurethane glue, I think
it will have to be replaced in the long run.
It doesn't go over or under anything, so I don't see that the S curve is for
anything but maybe style. Can I make the new one straight? Is there
anycompelling reason it has to be laminated? I have a nice piece of very
old white oak I can use to cut a new one; will a solid white oak tiller
handle be inappropriate for any reason? Thanks. (I have a bandsaw, so
duplicating the curve would be easy enough, but I think it will weaken the
handle, unless there is a good reason for the curve.)
|
Wood has grain. Cutting a curved shape out of an oak timber will make a
comparitively weak structure. Laminating not only makes all the grain going the
right direction, but laminating itself increases strength and resistance to
warping and twisting. The "S" shape is mostly for comfort. In some cases it also
creates needed clearance. You can buy premade tillers for many boat models, and
usually there is one that is pretty close, even if there isn't an exact
replacement. You can usually find at least a small collection at any West marine
store. Bring yours along and try to match it up. get the model number and then
find it elswhere on the internet for a LOT less money.
My boat has a very unusual, all wood wishbone shape. After contacting two firms
that advertise they can duplicate ANY tiller, I was left with the task of doing
it myself. They didn't want to do it because their tooling and jigs were not
designed for this particular setup. It's unusual enough that I consider it an
important and distinctive design element of the boat that needs to be
maintained. I bought a VERY nice piece of teak 5/4 lumber and sawed it into the
needed 5/16" strips on my table saw. Glued it up on a jig I made by mounting
dowels and blocks of wood on a wide board. Used West System Epoxy filled with
brown fiber filler and SLOW hardner. Used about 35 clamps. The final result was
a lot nicer than the original which was similar but not made with such beautiful
wood, or care. For the shallow bends of a tiller, steam is not needed or even
desirable. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:11 am Post subject: Re: Why a laminated tiller handle? |
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Depending on the cockpit's configuration a curve tiller is preferred.
Laminated teller with two part epoxy is better for strength and allow for
pattern variation like one or two layers of white hard wood with one layer
of dark wood. On my previous boat I made a spare tiller with one piece
solid ash and had no problem.
When you make a tiller you have to make sure that the holes are drilled
perpendicular and in line with the metal holding part mounted on the rudder.
When push comes to shove one of two fibreglass laminated hockey stick will
get you out of trouble. This is more true on smaller sailboat. The Potter
15 is a nicely configured boat. If you have the time and facility I would
go for laminated ash and holly wood ( or their equivalent) tiller with two
parts epoxy. You can use the old tiller as a template.
"Toller" <Toller@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:n%iEi.15489$ya1.5315@news02.roc.ny...
| Quote: | The rudder/tiller on my Potter 15 is disintigrating, so I will be asking a
few questions on rebuilding it in the next few weeks.
The tiller handle is laminated wood, in a very slight S curve. It has
delaminated; and while I am now gluing it up with polyurethane glue, I
think it will have to be replaced in the long run.
It doesn't go over or under anything, so I don't see that the S curve is
for anything but maybe style. Can I make the new one straight? Is there
anycompelling reason it has to be laminated? I have a nice piece of very
old white oak I can use to cut a new one; will a solid white oak tiller
handle be inappropriate for any reason? Thanks. (I have a bandsaw, so
duplicating the curve would be easy enough, but I think it will weaken the
handle, unless there is a good reason for the curve.)
|
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Toller
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:11 am Post subject: Re: Why a laminated tiller handle? |
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"Bill" <williamdochnahl@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:1189199815.750803.323000@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | On Sep 7, 2:02 pm, "Toller" <Tol...@Yahoo.com> wrote:
The rudder/tiller on my Potter 15 is disintigrating, so I will be asking
a
few questions on rebuilding it in the next few weeks.
The tiller handle is laminated wood, in a very slight S curve. It has
delaminated; and while I am now gluing it up with polyurethane glue, I
think
it will have to be replaced in the long run.
It doesn't go over or under anything, so I don't see that the S curve is
for
anything but maybe style. Can I make the new one straight? Is there
anycompelling reason it has to be laminated? I have a nice piece of very
old white oak I can use to cut a new one; will a solid white oak tiller
handle be inappropriate for any reason? Thanks. (I have a bandsaw, so
duplicating the curve would be easy enough, but I think it will weaken
the
handle, unless there is a good reason for the curve.)
I'm not sure about the curve but making it a laminate will allow you
to vary the grain pattern so that if and when it begins to warp it
will pull against itself and stay relatively straighter. You would
want to keep the grain going long ways but because it is still in a
circular pattern you flip one board over as compared to the previous.
I am sorry about the bad description on this. Someone else may have a
better one or even some wort of diagram to show you.
White oak is pretty stable, and this piece is about 40 years old. I hope it |
will not warp, at least not much.
But it wouldn't be all that much work to cut it up and glue it back
together, reversing the pieces, if that will give better results.
Hopefully it won't delaminate like the current one. |
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dadiOH
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: Why a laminated tiller handle? |
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Toller wrote:
| Quote: | The rudder/tiller on my Potter 15 is disintigrating, so I will be
asking a few questions on rebuilding it in the next few weeks.
The tiller handle is laminated wood, in a very slight S curve. It
has delaminated; and while I am now gluing it up with polyurethane
glue,
|
Not a good choice.
______________
| Quote: | It doesn't go over or under anything, so I don't see that the S
curve is for anything but maybe style.
|
A curve brings the end where your hand goes higher relative to the
rudder stock. Or lower, depending.
______________
| Quote: | Can I make the new one straight?
|
Yes
_______________
| Quote: | Is there any compelling reason it has to be laminated?
|
Compelling, no.
_________________
| Quote: | I have a nice piece of very old white oak I can use to cut a new
one;
will a solid white oak tiller handle be inappropriate for any
reason?
|
It will work fine. It will be rather heavy though. Mine is oak, made
of several pieces. The short & solid hand end is attached to two thin
pieces that are separated at intervals by three tapered blocks between
them. Making it in that manner decreased weight and saved a lot of
the shaping that would have been needed had I used a solid piece.
________________
(I have a bandsaw, so duplicating the curve would
| Quote: | be easy enough, but I think it will weaken the handle,
|
It would.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico |
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Frogwatch
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:56 pm Post subject: Re: Why a laminated tiller handle? |
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On Sep 8, 7:46 am, "dadiOH" <dad...@guesswhere.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Toller wrote:
The rudder/tiller on my Potter 15 is disintigrating, so I will be
asking a few questions on rebuilding it in the next few weeks.
The tiller handle is laminated wood, in a very slight S curve. It
has delaminated; and while I am now gluing it up with polyurethane
glue,
Not a good choice.
______________
It doesn't go over or under anything, so I don't see that the S
curve is for anything but maybe style.
A curve brings the end where your hand goes higher relative to the
rudder stock. Or lower, depending.
______________
Can I make the new one straight?
Yes
_______________
Is there any compelling reason it has to be laminated?
Compelling, no.
_________________
I have a nice piece of very old white oak I can use to cut a new
one;
will a solid white oak tiller handle be inappropriate for any
reason?
It will work fine. It will be rather heavy though. Mine is oak, made
of several pieces. The short & solid hand end is attached to two thin
pieces that are separated at intervals by three tapered blocks between
them. Making it in that manner decreased weight and saved a lot of
the shaping that would have been needed had I used a solid piece.
________________
(I have a bandsaw, so duplicating the curve would
be easy enough, but I think it will weaken the handle,
It would.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico
|
When it totally delaminates and some layers rot, cut out the rotten
layers. Use your table saw to cut thin strips to replace them with.
Glue it up with epoxy and it is as good as new. Worked for me. |
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