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Guest
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 Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:47 am Post subject: ER-32 Retention Nut - This is Bad - Right? |
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Just got a Bison ER-32 set for my R-8 Bridgeport. Wanted a way to hold
a broader range of sizes with less runout. Before doing anything, I
chucked up a drill blank and set up the indicator...whoa! it was all
over the place.
When I took the retention nut off, I noticed a groove in the bottom of
the collet. Lokking at the inside of the nut, there is a sort of
"integral washer/shoulder" that is like 1/4" off-center:
http://www.wallyblackburn.com/ernut
I pretty much know the answer, but this is my first experience with ER
toolholders: that shouldn't be that way should it? I could send it
back, but I want to use it - I was going to turn it concentric to the
rest of the nut. Any reason I shouldn't?
I am usually pretty impressed with Bison quality for the price. But
this falls into the "how the hell did they miss that?!" category.
Thanks,
Wally |
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John R. Carroll
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:55 am Post subject: Re: ER-32 Retention Nut - This is Bad - Right? |
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wallyblackburn@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | Just got a Bison ER-32 set for my R-8 Bridgeport. Wanted a way to
hold a broader range of sizes with less runout. Before doing
anything, I chucked up a drill blank and set up the indicator...whoa!
it was all over the place.
When I took the retention nut off, I noticed a groove in the bottom of
the collet. Lokking at the inside of the nut, there is a sort of
"integral washer/shoulder" that is like 1/4" off-center:
http://www.wallyblackburn.com/ernut
I pretty much know the answer, but this is my first experience with ER
toolholders: that shouldn't be that way should it? I could send it
back, but I want to use it - I was going to turn it concentric to the
rest of the nut. Any reason I shouldn't?
I am usually pretty impressed with Bison quality for the price. But
this falls into the "how the hell did they miss that?!" category.
|
That's not a bug Wally, it's a feature. A feature whose purpose is to retain
the collet in a properly seated condition while you tighten the nut.
A properly seated collet will be paralell to the face of the nut. If it
isn't, snap the thing in properly...
--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
www.machiningsolution.com |
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Grant Erwin
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:16 am Post subject: Re: ER-32 Retention Nut - This is Bad - Right? |
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wallyblackburn@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | Just got a Bison ER-32 set for my R-8 Bridgeport. Wanted a way to hold
a broader range of sizes with less runout. Before doing anything, I
chucked up a drill blank and set up the indicator...whoa! it was all
over the place.
When I took the retention nut off, I noticed a groove in the bottom of
the collet. Lokking at the inside of the nut, there is a sort of
"integral washer/shoulder" that is like 1/4" off-center:
http://www.wallyblackburn.com/ernut
I pretty much know the answer, but this is my first experience with ER
toolholders: that shouldn't be that way should it? I could send it
back, but I want to use it - I was going to turn it concentric to the
rest of the nut. Any reason I shouldn't?
I am usually pretty impressed with Bison quality for the price. But
this falls into the "how the hell did they miss that?!" category.
Thanks,
Wally
|
Read the manual that came with your collets. Snap the collet into the ring - it
only goes in one way - then it should be fine.
GWE |
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David Billington
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:23 am Post subject: Re: ER-32 Retention Nut - This is Bad - Right? |
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My ER16 nut looks similar inside. I looked up the manufacturer's
details, a swiss company, and they gave instruction on how to seat the
collet on the nut before use so its inserted and held correctly. They
warned about incorrect seating, and removal IIRC, distorting the collet
and reducing its accuracy from that its rated for. If all else fails RTFM.
wallyblackburn@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | Just got a Bison ER-32 set for my R-8 Bridgeport. Wanted a way to hold
a broader range of sizes with less runout. Before doing anything, I
chucked up a drill blank and set up the indicator...whoa! it was all
over the place.
When I took the retention nut off, I noticed a groove in the bottom of
the collet. Lokking at the inside of the nut, there is a sort of
"integral washer/shoulder" that is like 1/4" off-center:
http://www.wallyblackburn.com/ernut
I pretty much know the answer, but this is my first experience with ER
toolholders: that shouldn't be that way should it? I could send it
back, but I want to use it - I was going to turn it concentric to the
rest of the nut. Any reason I shouldn't?
I am usually pretty impressed with Bison quality for the price. But
this falls into the "how the hell did they miss that?!" category.
Thanks,
Wally
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Tomi
Guest
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Nick Müller
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:57 am Post subject: Re: ER-32 Retention Nut - This is Bad - Right? |
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<wallyblackburn@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | But this falls into the "how the hell did they miss that?!" category.
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And now the reason for that excentric:
It is for pulling the collet out.
Nick
--
The modular DRO
<http://www.yadro.de> |
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woodworker88
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:04 am Post subject: Re: ER-32 Retention Nut - This is Bad - Right? |
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I would check a little closer. The ER series retention nut has a
spring washer that connects to that groove. You hold the nut in one
hand and snap the collet into the nut. Then screw it onto the holder.
wallyblackburn@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | Just got a Bison ER-32 set for my R-8 Bridgeport. Wanted a way to hold
a broader range of sizes with less runout. Before doing anything, I
chucked up a drill blank and set up the indicator...whoa! it was all
over the place.
When I took the retention nut off, I noticed a groove in the bottom of
the collet. Lokking at the inside of the nut, there is a sort of
"integral washer/shoulder" that is like 1/4" off-center:
http://www.wallyblackburn.com/ernut
I pretty much know the answer, but this is my first experience with ER
toolholders: that shouldn't be that way should it? I could send it
back, but I want to use it - I was going to turn it concentric to the
rest of the nut. Any reason I shouldn't?
I am usually pretty impressed with Bison quality for the price. But
this falls into the "how the hell did they miss that?!" category.
Thanks,
Wally |
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Gunner
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:18 am Post subject: Re: ER-32 Retention Nut - This is Bad - Right? |
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On 29 Aug 2006 17:55:55 -0700, wallyblackburn@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | I feel like such a dope...
Thanks guys,
Wally
|
Chuckle...dont feel bad..a bunch of folks have made that
mistake..including me with my first ER in 30 taper on my Gorton Master
mill. I think I had .05 runout the first time I stuck it in there and
spun it up..."WTF!!!??????!!!!"
Gunner
| Quote: |
wallyblackburn@hotmail.com wrote:
Just got a Bison ER-32 set for my R-8 Bridgeport. Wanted a way to hold
a broader range of sizes with less runout. Before doing anything, I
chucked up a drill blank and set up the indicator...whoa! it was all
over the place.
When I took the retention nut off, I noticed a groove in the bottom of
the collet. Lokking at the inside of the nut, there is a sort of
"integral washer/shoulder" that is like 1/4" off-center:
http://www.wallyblackburn.com/ernut
I pretty much know the answer, but this is my first experience with ER
toolholders: that shouldn't be that way should it? I could send it
back, but I want to use it - I was going to turn it concentric to the
rest of the nut. Any reason I shouldn't?
I am usually pretty impressed with Bison quality for the price. But
this falls into the "how the hell did they miss that?!" category.
Thanks,
Wally
|
"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third
hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're
around."
"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right
before demode` (out of fashion).
-Buddy Jordan 2001 |
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F. George McDuffee
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:19 am Post subject: Re: ER-32 Retention Nut - This is Bad - Right? |
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On 29 Aug 2006 17:55:55 -0700, wallyblackburn@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | I feel like such a dope...
Thanks guys,
Wally
========== |
No foolish questions on this NG, but you may get a foolish answer
from time to time. And you are not out any money for a new
nut....
Unka George (George McDuffee)
=============================
When you give power to an executive
you do not know who will be filling
that position when the time of crisis comes.
Ernest Hemingway (1899-1961), U.S. author.
"Notes on the Next War: A Serious Topical Letter,"
in Esquire (New York, Sept. 1935; repr.
in By-Line Ernest Hemingway, ed. by William White, 1967). |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:19 am Post subject: Re: ER-32 Retention Nut - This is Bad - Right? |
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I feel like such a dope...
Thanks guys,
Wally
wallyblackburn@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | Just got a Bison ER-32 set for my R-8 Bridgeport. Wanted a way to hold
a broader range of sizes with less runout. Before doing anything, I
chucked up a drill blank and set up the indicator...whoa! it was all
over the place.
When I took the retention nut off, I noticed a groove in the bottom of
the collet. Lokking at the inside of the nut, there is a sort of
"integral washer/shoulder" that is like 1/4" off-center:
http://www.wallyblackburn.com/ernut
I pretty much know the answer, but this is my first experience with ER
toolholders: that shouldn't be that way should it? I could send it
back, but I want to use it - I was going to turn it concentric to the
rest of the nut. Any reason I shouldn't?
I am usually pretty impressed with Bison quality for the price. But
this falls into the "how the hell did they miss that?!" category.
Thanks,
Wally |
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| Back to top |
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Matt Stawicki
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: ER-32 Retention Nut - This is Bad - Right? |
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On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:55:09 GMT, "John R. Carroll"
<jcarroll@machiningsolution.com> wrote:
| Quote: | wallyblackburn@hotmail.com wrote:
Just got a Bison ER-32 set for my R-8 Bridgeport. Wanted a way to
hold a broader range of sizes with less runout. Before doing
anything, I chucked up a drill blank and set up the indicator...whoa!
it was all over the place.
When I took the retention nut off, I noticed a groove in the bottom of
the collet. Lokking at the inside of the nut, there is a sort of
"integral washer/shoulder" that is like 1/4" off-center:
http://www.wallyblackburn.com/ernut
I pretty much know the answer, but this is my first experience with ER
toolholders: that shouldn't be that way should it? I could send it
back, but I want to use it - I was going to turn it concentric to the
rest of the nut. Any reason I shouldn't?
I am usually pretty impressed with Bison quality for the price. But
this falls into the "how the hell did they miss that?!" category.
That's not a bug Wally, it's a feature. A feature whose purpose is to retain
the collet in a properly seated condition while you tighten the nut.
A properly seated collet will be paralell to the face of the nut. If it
isn't, snap the thing in properly...
|
Actually, that "feature" is to break the taper when you want to loosen
the collet.
Matt |
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John R. Carroll
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: ER-32 Retention Nut - This is Bad - Right? |
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Matt Stawicki wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:55:09 GMT, "John R. Carroll"
jcarroll@machiningsolution.com> wrote:
wallyblackburn@hotmail.com wrote:
Just got a Bison ER-32 set for my R-8 Bridgeport. Wanted a way to
hold a broader range of sizes with less runout. Before doing
anything, I chucked up a drill blank and set up the
indicator...whoa! it was all over the place.
When I took the retention nut off, I noticed a groove in the bottom
of the collet. Lokking at the inside of the nut, there is a sort of
"integral washer/shoulder" that is like 1/4" off-center:
http://www.wallyblackburn.com/ernut
I pretty much know the answer, but this is my first experience with
ER toolholders: that shouldn't be that way should it? I could send
it back, but I want to use it - I was going to turn it concentric
to the rest of the nut. Any reason I shouldn't?
I am usually pretty impressed with Bison quality for the price. But
this falls into the "how the hell did they miss that?!" category.
That's not a bug Wally, it's a feature. A feature whose purpose is
to retain the collet in a properly seated condition while you
tighten the nut.
A properly seated collet will be paralell to the face of the nut. If
it isn't, snap the thing in properly...
Actually, that "feature" is to break the taper when you want to loosen
the collet.
|
I didn't know that. I've customers that remove them entirely and that would
explain why thy smack the nut with the wrench once the nut is loose.
--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
www.machiningsolution.com |
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| Back to top |
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Matt Stawicki
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:56 pm Post subject: Re: ER-32 Retention Nut - This is Bad - Right? |
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On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 16:04:12 GMT, "John R. Carroll"
<jcarroll@machiningsolution.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Matt Stawicki wrote:
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:55:09 GMT, "John R. Carroll"
jcarroll@machiningsolution.com> wrote:
wallyblackburn@hotmail.com wrote:
Just got a Bison ER-32 set for my R-8 Bridgeport. Wanted a way to
hold a broader range of sizes with less runout. Before doing
anything, I chucked up a drill blank and set up the
indicator...whoa! it was all over the place.
When I took the retention nut off, I noticed a groove in the bottom
of the collet. Lokking at the inside of the nut, there is a sort of
"integral washer/shoulder" that is like 1/4" off-center:
http://www.wallyblackburn.com/ernut
I pretty much know the answer, but this is my first experience with
ER toolholders: that shouldn't be that way should it? I could send
it back, but I want to use it - I was going to turn it concentric
to the rest of the nut. Any reason I shouldn't?
I am usually pretty impressed with Bison quality for the price. But
this falls into the "how the hell did they miss that?!" category.
That's not a bug Wally, it's a feature. A feature whose purpose is
to retain the collet in a properly seated condition while you
tighten the nut.
A properly seated collet will be paralell to the face of the nut. If
it isn't, snap the thing in properly...
Actually, that "feature" is to break the taper when you want to loosen
the collet.
I didn't know that. I've customers that remove them entirely and that would
explain why thy smack the nut with the wrench once the nut is loose.
|
Well, you can do that on the larger ER's without causing any damage
(as long as you don't hit it too hard), but do that on the smaller
ones and you'll have runout problems. All they really need to do is
turn the nut a little more, with the wrench, and the taper will break
loose.
Now, that little tab inside the nut does come in handy for holding the
collet when using ER's in a lathe, where the holder is horizontal.
Some sizes don't actually 'snap' into the nut. Like the ER 20's I use
in my Swiss. You have to hold the nut so the tab is in the 12 o'clock
position, which will hold on to the collet until you insert it into
the holder. Otherwise, it will fall out. But that's not the real
purpose of the tab.
Matt |
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