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| Author |
Message |
Wayne Lundberg
Guest
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 Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:10 am Post subject: ISO compliance |
 |
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Any small shop out there doing ISO9002 compliance? Not registration, just
able to convince customers you are compliant?
Wayne |
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| Back to top |
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Jim Stewart
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:07 am Post subject: Re: ISO compliance |
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Wayne Lundberg wrote:
| Quote: | Any small shop out there doing ISO9002 compliance? Not registration, just
able to convince customers you are compliant?
|
Can't help you.
Seems unlikely that just claiming compliance
would get you anything. The people that are
into ISO9002 are into paper trails and audits
and verification and it's highly doubtful they
would just take your word on compliance. |
|
| Back to top |
|
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Grant Erwin
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:50 am Post subject: Re: ISO compliance |
|
|
Jim Stewart wrote:
| Quote: | Wayne Lundberg wrote:
Any small shop out there doing ISO9002 compliance? Not registration, just
able to convince customers you are compliant?
Can't help you.
Seems unlikely that just claiming compliance
would get you anything. The people that are
into ISO9002 are into paper trails and audits
and verification and it's highly doubtful they
would just take your word on compliance.
|
ISO certification boils down to documenting every single procedure you use in
your business. How exactly do you restock welding wire? How exactly do you
specify to the customer what work you will perform? I've been through this on
the corporate level and it is truly a bunch of BS. The only more BS thing is if
companies insist upon their vendors being certified.
I left all that behind when I walked away from my engineering profession. Now
that I'm a humble self-employed fabricator, I get sketches in pencil on cedar
shakes, I get heavily accented verbal descriptions of parts on lousy cellphone
connections, I don't document anything and I'm about 1000 times happier.
GWE |
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| Back to top |
|
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Wayne Lundberg
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 3:05 am Post subject: Re: ISO compliance |
|
|
I hear you!
Wayne
"Grant Erwin" <grant@NOSPAMkirkland.net> wrote in message
news:12eus4dpgjtr41c@corp.supernews.com...
| Quote: | Jim Stewart wrote:
Wayne Lundberg wrote:
Any small shop out there doing ISO9002 compliance? Not registration,
just
able to convince customers you are compliant?
Can't help you.
Seems unlikely that just claiming compliance
would get you anything. The people that are
into ISO9002 are into paper trails and audits
and verification and it's highly doubtful they
would just take your word on compliance.
ISO certification boils down to documenting every single procedure you use
in
your business. How exactly do you restock welding wire? How exactly do you
specify to the customer what work you will perform? I've been through this
on
the corporate level and it is truly a bunch of BS. The only more BS thing
is if
companies insist upon their vendors being certified.
I left all that behind when I walked away from my engineering profession.
Now
that I'm a humble self-employed fabricator, I get sketches in pencil on
cedar
shakes, I get heavily accented verbal descriptions of parts on lousy
cellphone
connections, I don't document anything and I'm about 1000 times happier.
GWE |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jerry Foster
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 3:21 am Post subject: Re: ISO compliance |
|
|
"Wayne Lundberg" <Waynelund@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:JWHHg.304374$mF2.209026@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
| Quote: | Any small shop out there doing ISO9002 compliance? Not registration, just
able to convince customers you are compliant?
Wayne
|
The only way you can be ISO compliant is to be certified by an appropriate
agency. And the big catch is that it is not about meeting some published
standards. What you are required to do is to develop your own
standards/procedures and then follow them. Most businesses get a copy of
the ISO procedures from a couple similar businesses that are certified, and
then write their own using these as an example. Usually, a company will
bring in an ISO consultant to help. Once your procedures are approved, then
you must be periodically audited to ensure you are, in fact, following them.
In a nutshell, ISO requires that you write down how you are going to do
things and then do things in the way you have written.
None of this is trivial. A typical set of ISO procedures for a small
operation runs to a few hundred pages.
ISO is not a government program. The certifying authority is set up and
paid for by the certified businesses. You have to hire the auditors to come
in and audit you. Etc.
ISO is largely about material and quality control. And, of course, the
payoff is that you can then sell to companies that require their vendors to
be ISO certified.
And, no, I'm not an ISO expert. But I've worked for a couple companies that
became ISO certified while I was working there, so I got to watch (from a
safe distance - I'm an engineer and most engineering "stuff" isn't covered
by ISO.). But it seemed to have occupied most of Production and QC
Management's attention for the better part of a year.
Jerry |
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John Husvar
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:48 am Post subject: Re: ISO compliance |
|
|
In article
<1vKHg.696207$Fs1.503288@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Wayne Lundberg" <Waynelund@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
| Quote: | I hear you!
Wayne
"Grant Erwin" <grant@NOSPAMkirkland.net> wrote in message
news:12eus4dpgjtr41c@corp.supernews.com...
Jim Stewart wrote:
Wayne Lundberg wrote:
Any small shop out there doing ISO9002 compliance? Not registration,
just
able to convince customers you are compliant?
Can't help you.
Seems unlikely that just claiming compliance
would get you anything. The people that are
into ISO9002 are into paper trails and audits
and verification and it's highly doubtful they
would just take your word on compliance.
ISO certification boils down to documenting every single procedure you use
in
your business. How exactly do you restock welding wire? How exactly do you
specify to the customer what work you will perform? I've been through this
on
the corporate level and it is truly a bunch of BS. The only more BS thing
is if
companies insist upon their vendors being certified.
I left all that behind when I walked away from my engineering profession.
Now
that I'm a humble self-employed fabricator, I get sketches in pencil on
cedar
shakes, I get heavily accented verbal descriptions of parts on lousy
cellphone
connections, I don't document anything and I'm about 1000 times happier.
GWE
|
ISO compliance doesn't seem to be related to quality at all AFAICS: You
can build crap products and still be in ISO compliance so long as you
build well-documented production and procedurally documented crap
products.
--
Bring back, Oh bring back
Oh, bring back that old continuity.
Bring back, oh, bring back
Oh, bring back Clerk Maxwell to me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
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Larry Jaques
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:09 am Post subject: Re: ISO compliance |
|
|
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:50:43 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Grant Erwin <grant@NOSPAMkirkland.net> quickly quoth:
| Quote: | ISO certification boils down to documenting every single procedure you use in
your business. How exactly do you restock welding wire? How exactly do you
specify to the customer what work you will perform? I've been through this on
the corporate level and it is truly a bunch of BS. The only more BS thing is if
companies insist upon their vendors being certified.
|
Cut out most of the corporate paperwork, cut out most of the upper
management (as well as 90% of their salaries), cut back the middle
management, and a nice little corporation starts becoming -much- more
competitive with the rest of the world. Dog and pony shows cost far
too much.
| Quote: | I left all that behind when I walked away from my engineering profession. Now
that I'm a humble self-employed fabricator, I get sketches in pencil on cedar
shakes, I get heavily accented verbal descriptions of parts on lousy cellphone
connections, I don't document anything and I'm about 1000 times happier.
|
1 Atta Boy coming your way, Grant!
----------------------------------------------------
Thesaurus: Ancient reptile with excellent vocabulary
http://diversify.com Dynamic Website Applications
==================================================== |
|
| Back to top |
|
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Mark Fields
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:21 am Post subject: Re: ISO compliance |
|
|
I have been in manufacturing for 30 years and involved in ISO 9000
registrations since 1992.
Your ISO program is only as good as how you use it.
No where in the ISO standard does it state third party registration is
required. If someone can show me the clause that states it please post it
here.
There is a lot of BS that goes on, auditors who throw their weight around
and run personal agendas. If that happens, the client company should
always remember, they are the client and the third party registrar is their
supplier.
Some companies benefit from ISO registration and some don't. The fact is
that it depends on whether the to person in the company wants to use this
tool.
The ISO series of standards related to ISO 9000 came about because the
governing body of standards making boards in Europe recognized a need and
they wrote a standard around it. A lot of people don't realize there are
thousands of ISO standards, relating to everything from a quality management
system (i.e. the ISO 9000 series) to ISO standards for pig irons, steels,
concrete, test methods, etc. - you name it there is a standard for it.
Long before the ISO committe released the first ISO 9000 standards in 1987,
there were standards for quality systems. In the United States, these were
MIL standards or SAE or other organization's stadards to guide a company in
developing a quality management system. More recently people have come to
understand that this should be called a "management system" and don't put
"quality" in front of it.
In fact, all third party registrars, will REQUIRE as part of the contract
with their client companies that they MAY NOT put the registration symbol on
their PRODUCTS.
To have an ISO registered quality system (by a third party registrar) saves
your customers money. The money is saved because they don't have to do an
audit of your company in advance. You are paying for the audit for them by
using an independent third party. Even if your customer performs an audit
themselves, in advance of giving you an order, will not guarantee your
products will be flawless or even conform to the requirements. But - it
does give them some idea about your business.
Likewise if your company is selling to another company, you can run a Dunn
and Bradstreet report, to see if they will pay you on time, but it does not
guarantee you that they will pay you in time, only that in the past they
have tended to pay on time.
OF COURSE you CAN convince your customer you are ISO compliant. Just
educate yourself about the standard, put a system in place, and be willing
and ready to show them your system.
Being ISO compliant is no different than the way business has always been
conducted --- unless (no insult is directed at your company by saying this)
a company normally get new clients by taking them out to lunch, buying them
baseball tickets, BS'ing them about it's capabilities, ignoring their
purchase order requirements, accepting orders it cannot deliver, etc.
ISO companies also make mistakes every day but if they really have a system
in place it detect and correct these conditions, and anticipates and
continuously improves. These are the hallmarks of a company that continues
to make profits in all business conditions.
Mark
"John Husvar" <jhusvar@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jhusvar-F62DE1.20482225082006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
| Quote: | In article
1vKHg.696207$Fs1.503288@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Wayne Lundberg" <Waynelund@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
I hear you!
Wayne
"Grant Erwin" <grant@NOSPAMkirkland.net> wrote in message
news:12eus4dpgjtr41c@corp.supernews.com...
Jim Stewart wrote:
Wayne Lundberg wrote:
Any small shop out there doing ISO9002 compliance? Not registration,
just
able to convince customers you are compliant?
Can't help you.
Seems unlikely that just claiming compliance
would get you anything. The people that are
into ISO9002 are into paper trails and audits
and verification and it's highly doubtful they
would just take your word on compliance.
ISO certification boils down to documenting every single procedure you
use
in
your business. How exactly do you restock welding wire? How exactly do
you
specify to the customer what work you will perform? I've been through
this
on
the corporate level and it is truly a bunch of BS. The only more BS
thing
is if
companies insist upon their vendors being certified.
I left all that behind when I walked away from my engineering
profession.
Now
that I'm a humble self-employed fabricator, I get sketches in pencil on
cedar
shakes, I get heavily accented verbal descriptions of parts on lousy
cellphone
connections, I don't document anything and I'm about 1000 times
happier.
GWE
ISO compliance doesn't seem to be related to quality at all AFAICS: You
can build crap products and still be in ISO compliance so long as you
build well-documented production and procedurally documented crap
products.
--
Bring back, Oh bring back
Oh, bring back that old continuity.
Bring back, oh, bring back
Oh, bring back Clerk Maxwell to me. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:22 am Post subject: Re: ISO compliance |
|
|
Larry Jaques wrote:
| Quote: |
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:50:43 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Grant Erwin <grant@NOSPAMkirkland.net> quickly quoth:
ISO certification boils down to documenting every single procedure you use in
your business. How exactly do you restock welding wire? How exactly do you
specify to the customer what work you will perform? I've been through this on
the corporate level and it is truly a bunch of BS. The only more BS thing is if
companies insist upon their vendors being certified.
Cut out most of the corporate paperwork, cut out most of the upper
management (as well as 90% of their salaries), cut back the middle
management, and a nice little corporation starts becoming -much- more
competitive with the rest of the world. Dog and pony shows cost far
too much.
I left all that behind when I walked away from my engineering profession. Now
that I'm a humble self-employed fabricator, I get sketches in pencil on cedar
shakes, I get heavily accented verbal descriptions of parts on lousy cellphone
connections, I don't document anything and I'm about 1000 times happier.
1 Atta Boy coming your way, Grant!
----------------------------------------------------
Thesaurus: Ancient reptile with excellent vocabulary
http://diversify.com Dynamic Website Applications
====================================================
|
The basic principles of ISO are good but the bloat and crap that they
add to it defeats the purpose of the whole thing.
John |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark Rand
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:22 am Post subject: Re: ISO compliance |
|
|
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 23:20:37 -0500, "Robert Swinney" <judybob@comcast.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | Mark writes "<<< lotsa snippage of gross amounts of ISO BS
Yeah I have been involved in companies that went for ISO certification. ISO
is the greatest splash of hog wash ever inflicted on American companies by
the Europeans.
It is much akin to the military expression, "The incompetent leading the
unwilling to do the unnecessary". The only ones profiting from ISO are the
ISO certification agencies.
Another rip off of American business is the long lived Underwriter's
Laboratories. I was involved with various certifications on my last job,
especially FCC type acceptance of RF products. I got a price package once
for UL. Unfrigginbelieveable! You pay for the UL testing and then you
commit to have inspectors visit the manufacturing premises at periodic
intervals for retesting. Kind size rip if ever there was one!. Not far
behind are the test houses that test products leading to FCC Type Acceptance
Certification.
Bob Swinney
|
I'll see your ISO and raise you Sarbanes-Oxley... My little thirty man
department has just finished a man-year of work for that little fiasco and
we're in an English IT department of a French company!
Mark Rand
RTFM |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Robert Swinney
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:22 am Post subject: Re: ISO compliance |
|
|
Mark writes "<<< lotsa snippage of gross amounts of ISO BS >>>
Yeah I have been involved in companies that went for ISO certification. ISO
is the greatest splash of hog wash ever inflicted on American companies by
the Europeans.
It is much akin to the military expression, "The incompetent leading the
unwilling to do the unnecessary". The only ones profiting from ISO are the
ISO certification agencies.
Another rip off of American business is the long lived Underwriter's
Laboratories. I was involved with various certifications on my last job,
especially FCC type acceptance of RF products. I got a price package once
for UL. Unfrigginbelieveable! You pay for the UL testing and then you
commit to have inspectors visit the manufacturing premises at periodic
intervals for retesting. Kind size rip if ever there was one!. Not far
behind are the test houses that test products leading to FCC Type Acceptance
Certification.
Bob Swinney
"Mark Fields" <mark_no_spam_f@siscom.net> wrote in message
news:mvOHg.71310$vl5.20107@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
| Quote: | I have been in manufacturing for 30 years and involved in ISO 9000
registrations since 1992.
Your ISO program is only as good as how you use it.
No where in the ISO standard does it state third party registration is
required. If someone can show me the clause that states it please post it
here.
There is a lot of BS that goes on, auditors who throw their weight around
and run personal agendas. If that happens, the client company should
always remember, they are the client and the third party registrar is
their supplier.
Some companies benefit from ISO registration and some don't. The fact is
that it depends on whether the to person in the company wants to use this
tool.
The ISO series of standards related to ISO 9000 came about because the
governing body of standards making boards in Europe recognized a need and
they wrote a standard around it. A lot of people don't realize there are
thousands of ISO standards, relating to everything from a quality
management system (i.e. the ISO 9000 series) to ISO standards for pig
irons, steels, concrete, test methods, etc. - you name it there is a
standard for it.
Long before the ISO committe released the first ISO 9000 standards in
1987, there were standards for quality systems. In the United States,
these were MIL standards or SAE or other organization's stadards to guide
a company in developing a quality management system. More recently people
have come to understand that this should be called a "management system"
and don't put "quality" in front of it.
In fact, all third party registrars, will REQUIRE as part of the contract
with their client companies that they MAY NOT put the registration symbol
on their PRODUCTS.
To have an ISO registered quality system (by a third party registrar)
saves your customers money. The money is saved because they don't have to
do an audit of your company in advance. You are paying for the audit for
them by using an independent third party. Even if your customer performs
an audit themselves, in advance of giving you an order, will not guarantee
your products will be flawless or even conform to the requirements. But -
it does give them some idea about your business.
Likewise if your company is selling to another company, you can run a Dunn
and Bradstreet report, to see if they will pay you on time, but it does
not guarantee you that they will pay you in time, only that in the past
they have tended to pay on time.
OF COURSE you CAN convince your customer you are ISO compliant. Just
educate yourself about the standard, put a system in place, and be willing
and ready to show them your system.
Being ISO compliant is no different than the way business has always been
conducted --- unless (no insult is directed at your company by saying
this) a company normally get new clients by taking them out to lunch,
buying them baseball tickets, BS'ing them about it's capabilities,
ignoring their purchase order requirements, accepting orders it cannot
deliver, etc.
ISO companies also make mistakes every day but if they really have a
system in place it detect and correct these conditions, and anticipates
and continuously improves. These are the hallmarks of a company that
continues to make profits in all business conditions.
Mark
"John Husvar" <jhusvar@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jhusvar-F62DE1.20482225082006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
In article
1vKHg.696207$Fs1.503288@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Wayne Lundberg" <Waynelund@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
I hear you!
Wayne
"Grant Erwin" <grant@NOSPAMkirkland.net> wrote in message
news:12eus4dpgjtr41c@corp.supernews.com...
Jim Stewart wrote:
Wayne Lundberg wrote:
Any small shop out there doing ISO9002 compliance? Not
registration,
just
able to convince customers you are compliant?
Can't help you.
Seems unlikely that just claiming compliance
would get you anything. The people that are
into ISO9002 are into paper trails and audits
and verification and it's highly doubtful they
would just take your word on compliance.
ISO certification boils down to documenting every single procedure you
use
in
your business. How exactly do you restock welding wire? How exactly do
you
specify to the customer what work you will perform? I've been through
this
on
the corporate level and it is truly a bunch of BS. The only more BS
thing
is if
companies insist upon their vendors being certified.
I left all that behind when I walked away from my engineering
profession.
Now
that I'm a humble self-employed fabricator, I get sketches in pencil
on
cedar
shakes, I get heavily accented verbal descriptions of parts on lousy
cellphone
connections, I don't document anything and I'm about 1000 times
happier.
GWE
ISO compliance doesn't seem to be related to quality at all AFAICS: You
can build crap products and still be in ISO compliance so long as you
build well-documented production and procedurally documented crap
products.
--
Bring back, Oh bring back
Oh, bring back that old continuity.
Bring back, oh, bring back
Oh, bring back Clerk Maxwell to me.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wayne Lundberg
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:23 am Post subject: Re: ISO compliance |
|
|
..Thank you one and all. Great food for thought. Must sleep on it now. Back
tomorrow.
Wayne |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ff
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: ISO compliance |
|
|
| Quote: |
ISO is not a government program. The certifying authority is set up and
paid for by the certified businesses. You have to hire the auditors to
come
in and audit you. Etc.
That is one flaw in the system. If the ISO auditor ever disqualified a |
business from certification, he/she loses a paying customer.
That's why building inspectors are paid by the government. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Martin H. Eastburn
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:50 am Post subject: Re: ISO compliance |
|
|
Now now Grant - know what you mean. Been there had it done to me.
Three companies - The best is to find one locally that will train/help you
get certified - they do it - sometimes with another.
Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member
http://lufkinced.com/
Grant Erwin wrote:
| Quote: | Jim Stewart wrote:
Wayne Lundberg wrote:
Any small shop out there doing ISO9002 compliance? Not registration,
just
able to convince customers you are compliant?
Can't help you.
Seems unlikely that just claiming compliance
would get you anything. The people that are
into ISO9002 are into paper trails and audits
and verification and it's highly doubtful they
would just take your word on compliance.
ISO certification boils down to documenting every single procedure you
use in your business. How exactly do you restock welding wire? How
exactly do you specify to the customer what work you will perform? I've
been through this on the corporate level and it is truly a bunch of BS.
The only more BS thing is if companies insist upon their vendors being
certified.
I left all that behind when I walked away from my engineering
profession. Now that I'm a humble self-employed fabricator, I get
sketches in pencil on cedar shakes, I get heavily accented verbal
descriptions of parts on lousy cellphone connections, I don't document
anything and I'm about 1000 times happier.
GWE
|
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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|
|
Mark Fields
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:23 am Post subject: Re: ISO compliance |
|
|
"Robert Swinney" <judybob@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:sq6dnaHd9pGAVnLZnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@comcast.com...
| Quote: | Yeah I have been involved in companies that went for ISO certification.
|
What was your involvement? Complaining that your company was doing it?
| Quote: | ISO is the greatest splash of hog wash ever inflicted on American
companies by the Europeans.
|
Typical reactionary talk from people who have never been involved. No
company can force another to become ISO registered. If your customer says
"I will only buy from ISO registered suppliers" you are given a choice.
They might also say "I only buy from companies in Texas" (believe it or not
I have seen this) or " I only buy from small companies", etc.
| Quote: | It is much akin to the military expression, "The incompetent leading the
unwilling to do the unnecessary". The only ones profiting from ISO are
the ISO certification agencies.
|
Again you are wrong. Plenty of comapnies had no systematic way to conduct
their business and with an ISO specification they organized a system within
their company. You have never read the ISO standard because it does not
state a certification agency is to conduct an audit.
| Quote: | Another rip off of American business is the long lived Underwriter's
Laboratories. I was involved with various certifications on my last job,
especially FCC type acceptance of RF products. I got a price package once
for UL. Unfrigginbelieveable! You pay for the UL testing and then you
commit to have inspectors visit the manufacturing premises at periodic
intervals for retesting. Kind size rip if ever there was one!. Not far
behind are the test houses that test products leading to FCC Type
Acceptance Certification.
|
More whining. When you buy anything do you ever consider somebody else's
opinion or do you make all your purchases based on only what you see
yourself?
| Quote: | Bob Swinney
"Mark Fields" <mark_no_spam_f@siscom.net> wrote in message
news:mvOHg.71310$vl5.20107@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
I have been in manufacturing for 30 years and involved in ISO 9000
registrations since 1992.
Your ISO program is only as good as how you use it.
No where in the ISO standard does it state third party registration is
required. If someone can show me the clause that states it please post
it here.
There is a lot of BS that goes on, auditors who throw their weight around
and run personal agendas. If that happens, the client company should
always remember, they are the client and the third party registrar is
their supplier.
Some companies benefit from ISO registration and some don't. The fact is
that it depends on whether the to person in the company wants to use this
tool.
The ISO series of standards related to ISO 9000 came about because the
governing body of standards making boards in Europe recognized a need and
they wrote a standard around it. A lot of people don't realize there are
thousands of ISO standards, relating to everything from a quality
management system (i.e. the ISO 9000 series) to ISO standards for pig
irons, steels, concrete, test methods, etc. - you name it there is a
standard for it.
Long before the ISO committe released the first ISO 9000 standards in
1987, there were standards for quality systems. In the United States,
these were MIL standards or SAE or other organization's stadards to guide
a company in developing a quality management system. More recently
people have come to understand that this should be called a "management
system" and don't put "quality" in front of it.
In fact, all third party registrars, will REQUIRE as part of the contract
with their client companies that they MAY NOT put the registration symbol
on their PRODUCTS.
To have an ISO registered quality system (by a third party registrar)
saves your customers money. The money is saved because they don't have
to do an audit of your company in advance. You are paying for the audit
for them by using an independent third party. Even if your customer
performs an audit themselves, in advance of giving you an order, will not
guarantee your products will be flawless or even conform to the
requirements. But - it does give them some idea about your business.
Likewise if your company is selling to another company, you can run a
Dunn and Bradstreet report, to see if they will pay you on time, but it
does not guarantee you that they will pay you in time, only that in the
past they have tended to pay on time.
OF COURSE you CAN convince your customer you are ISO compliant. Just
educate yourself about the standard, put a system in place, and be
willing and ready to show them your system.
Being ISO compliant is no different than the way business has always been
conducted --- unless (no insult is directed at your company by saying
this) a company normally get new clients by taking them out to lunch,
buying them baseball tickets, BS'ing them about it's capabilities,
ignoring their purchase order requirements, accepting orders it cannot
deliver, etc.
ISO companies also make mistakes every day but if they really have a
system in place it detect and correct these conditions, and anticipates
and continuously improves. These are the hallmarks of a company that
continues to make profits in all business conditions.
Mark
"John Husvar" <jhusvar@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jhusvar-F62DE1.20482225082006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
In article
1vKHg.696207$Fs1.503288@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Wayne Lundberg" <Waynelund@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
I hear you!
Wayne
"Grant Erwin" <grant@NOSPAMkirkland.net> wrote in message
news:12eus4dpgjtr41c@corp.supernews.com...
Jim Stewart wrote:
Wayne Lundberg wrote:
Any small shop out there doing ISO9002 compliance? Not
registration,
just
able to convince customers you are compliant?
Can't help you.
Seems unlikely that just claiming compliance
would get you anything. The people that are
into ISO9002 are into paper trails and audits
and verification and it's highly doubtful they
would just take your word on compliance.
ISO certification boils down to documenting every single procedure
you use
in
your business. How exactly do you restock welding wire? How exactly
do you
specify to the customer what work you will perform? I've been through
this
on
the corporate level and it is truly a bunch of BS. The only more BS
thing
is if
companies insist upon their vendors being certified.
I left all that behind when I walked away from my engineering
profession.
Now
that I'm a humble self-employed fabricator, I get sketches in pencil
on
cedar
shakes, I get heavily accented verbal descriptions of parts on lousy
cellphone
connections, I don't document anything and I'm about 1000 times
happier.
GWE
ISO compliance doesn't seem to be related to quality at all AFAICS: You
can build crap products and still be in ISO compliance so long as you
build well-documented production and procedurally documented crap
products.
--
Bring back, Oh bring back
Oh, bring back that old continuity.
Bring back, oh, bring back
Oh, bring back Clerk Maxwell to me.
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