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Guest
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 Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject: Well Question |
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I have an irrigation well, 4" caseing, submersible pump, about 25 gallon
pressure tank. Following a hurricane I did not use the well for several
months. Then, the next spring, when I did try to use it, I could only get
the pressure up to about 20-25 psi. When I turn the pump off, the pressure
quickly drops to zero.
No trees fell near the line except very close to the well casing. I have
dug down to the pitless adapter and there is no leak there. I do not
believe the water is leaking at inside the casing and running back down
into the well because I do not hear it and because there is a diaphram on
the drop pipe that fits tightly against the inside of the casing (to create
a vacuum below it when the pump is running and increase water flow ) which
would cause the casing to fill up. That is not happening.
Since I already has a spare pump, I pulled up the old one in case its check
valve was bad, and replaced it. The drop pipe looked fine. Still the same
problems (low pressure, pressure drops to zero when pump is off).
I do not think that the well is just no longer able to produce the
necessary flow because that would not explain the drop in pressure when it
is switched off.
I can think of no reason the underground pipe would be broken and it would
be a huge job to dig along its length and check for a leak.
QUESTIONS:
What is/are the most likely cause(s) of this problem other than a leak in
the underground pipe.
The pipe is 18"-24" below ground (below our freeze line). Is there any to
locate a large leak other than digging along its length?
MANT THANKS for any help. |
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Speedy Jim
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: Well Question |
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NoSpam99989@aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | I have an irrigation well, 4" caseing, submersible pump, about 25 gallon
pressure tank. Following a hurricane I did not use the well for several
months. Then, the next spring, when I did try to use it, I could only get
the pressure up to about 20-25 psi. When I turn the pump off, the pressure
quickly drops to zero.
No trees fell near the line except very close to the well casing. I have
dug down to the pitless adapter and there is no leak there. I do not
believe the water is leaking at inside the casing and running back down
into the well because I do not hear it and because there is a diaphram on
the drop pipe that fits tightly against the inside of the casing (to create
a vacuum below it when the pump is running and increase water flow ) which
would cause the casing to fill up. That is not happening.
Since I already has a spare pump, I pulled up the old one in case its check
valve was bad, and replaced it. The drop pipe looked fine. Still the same
problems (low pressure, pressure drops to zero when pump is off).
I do not think that the well is just no longer able to produce the
necessary flow because that would not explain the drop in pressure when it
is switched off.
I can think of no reason the underground pipe would be broken and it would
be a huge job to dig along its length and check for a leak.
QUESTIONS:
What is/are the most likely cause(s) of this problem other than a leak in
the underground pipe.
The pipe is 18"-24" below ground (below our freeze line). Is there any to
locate a large leak other than digging along its length?
MANT THANKS for any help.
|
Blank off the underground pipe at the wellhead. Then
pressurize the line from the other end (either water or air).
You won't need a whole lot of pressure.
Jim |
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Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Well Question |
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Thanks. I am planning on doing that as soon as I find my extra pitless
adapter (I can blank off what is normally its input from the pump and plug
it into the side of the well casing where the underground line connects.
That way I don't have to dig a huge hole, cut a pipe and put fittings on
pipe that I cannot move. (Close to the well it is schedule 80 PVC,
elsewhere Sch. 40)
That should prove if there is a leak in that line. However I don't see how
it will help me find the leak. I can run the pump for an hour or so and I
don't see any evidence of a leak at the surface. The soil is sandy clay
and percs well.
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:16:38 GMT, Speedy Jim <volks@nls.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Blank off the underground pipe at the wellhead. Then
pressurize the line from the other end (either water or air).
You won't need a whole lot of pressure.
Jim
NoSpam99989@aol.com wrote:
I have an irrigation well, 4" caseing, submersible pump, about 25 gallon
pressure tank. Following a hurricane I did not use the well for several
months. Then, the next spring, when I did try to use it, I could only get
the pressure up to about 20-25 psi. When I turn the pump off, the pressure
quickly drops to zero.
No trees fell near the line except very close to the well casing. I have
dug down to the pitless adapter and there is no leak there. I do not
believe the water is leaking at inside the casing and running back down
into the well because I do not hear it and because there is a diaphram on
the drop pipe that fits tightly against the inside of the casing (to create
a vacuum below it when the pump is running and increase water flow ) which
would cause the casing to fill up. That is not happening.
Since I already has a spare pump, I pulled up the old one in case its check
valve was bad, and replaced it. The drop pipe looked fine. Still the same
problems (low pressure, pressure drops to zero when pump is off).
I do not think that the well is just no longer able to produce the
necessary flow because that would not explain the drop in pressure when it
is switched off.
I can think of no reason the underground pipe would be broken and it would
be a huge job to dig along its length and check for a leak.
QUESTIONS:
What is/are the most likely cause(s) of this problem other than a leak in
the underground pipe.
The pipe is 18"-24" below ground (below our freeze line). Is there any to
locate a large leak other than digging along its length?
MANT THANKS for any help.
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Pete C.
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: Well Question |
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NoSpam99989@aol.com wrote:
| Quote: |
Thanks. I am planning on doing that as soon as I find my extra pitless
adapter (I can blank off what is normally its input from the pump and plug
it into the side of the well casing where the underground line connects.
That way I don't have to dig a huge hole, cut a pipe and put fittings on
pipe that I cannot move. (Close to the well it is schedule 80 PVC,
elsewhere Sch. 40)
That should prove if there is a leak in that line. However I don't see how
it will help me find the leak. I can run the pump for an hour or so and I
don't see any evidence of a leak at the surface. The soil is sandy clay
and percs well.
|
If you determine that the pipe is leaking, find a plumber with
ultrasonic leak detection equipment to isolate the leak location for
you.
Pete C. |
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hallerb@aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: Well Question |
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water companies use a big sthescope and listen to the ground to find
leaks.
but chances are if one spot is bad the entire pipe is questionable.
if you dont use the well in cold weather you could replace the line
with a shallow one but you will have to blow it out each year before
winter |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:03 am Post subject: Re: Well Question |
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Thanks for all of the replies. The problem actually turned out to be on
the drop pipe. I did not see any problem when I pulled it up to change the
pump, made a rig to do some testing at the pitless adapter and found I
could not get more than 22 psi.
On the drop pipe was a steel and heavy rubber disk that seals between the
drop pipe and the well casing so that air cannot go down the well. This
causes a vacuum above the pump thus pulling more water into the well. The
drop pipe screws into the top and bottom of the disk. The fittings had
corroded nearly away and water could just gush out.
Does anyone know how effective these seals are? What are they called.
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:50:17 -0500, NoSpam99989@aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | I have an irrigation well, 4" caseing, submersible pump, about 25 gallon
pressure tank. Following a hurricane I did not use the well for several
months. Then, the next spring, when I did try to use it, I could only get
the pressure up to about 20-25 psi. When I turn the pump off, the pressure
quickly drops to zero.
No trees fell near the line except very close to the well casing. I have
dug down to the pitless adapter and there is no leak there. I do not
believe the water is leaking at inside the casing and running back down
into the well because I do not hear it and because there is a diaphram on
the drop pipe that fits tightly against the inside of the casing (to create
a vacuum below it when the pump is running and increase water flow ) which
would cause the casing to fill up. That is not happening.
Since I already has a spare pump, I pulled up the old one in case its check
valve was bad, and replaced it. The drop pipe looked fine. Still the same
problems (low pressure, pressure drops to zero when pump is off).
I do not think that the well is just no longer able to produce the
necessary flow because that would not explain the drop in pressure when it
is switched off.
I can think of no reason the underground pipe would be broken and it would
be a huge job to dig along its length and check for a leak.
QUESTIONS:
What is/are the most likely cause(s) of this problem other than a leak in
the underground pipe.
The pipe is 18"-24" below ground (below our freeze line). Is there any to
locate a large leak other than digging along its length?
MANT THANKS for any help. |
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Bob F
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Well Question |
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"Rick Blaine" <dont@bother.com> wrote in message
news:l10m73tuc99of92nho7ktph249mkapefle@4ax.com...
| Quote: | dpb <none@non.net> wrote:
"...given that there is a single boost[er] pump supplying both lines
and
the fitting on the pump is smaller than the larger line."
If I interpret this correctly, the system still has a single-point
choke
point. Downstream of that increasing the line size or number of
lines
can't help w/ what is an upstream restriction. Am I wrong?
Right... That's what I was trying to say. The fitting on the booster
pump looks
to be around 1 inch, maybe 1.5". It goes through an adapter to a
pipe that acts
like a manifold with the 1.5" and 2" lines tapped off. So my
assumption is that
as long as the pump can provide the pressure over the rise and
distance and
supply the demand, it doesn't make any difference if they are tied
together and
then split at the midpoint or run as separate lines.
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Bigger pipes lessen the pressure loss in the pipe, no matter what size
of pipe the source is. If the pipes are big enough, their length makes
less difference to the pressure and volume available at the end. There
is just less pressure drop.
Having both pipes available to both houses just lessens the
opportunities for line pressure drop to make a difference between what
pressure is available in any house.
| Quote: |
The tank at the service end resolves the problem in that manner as
long
as the total demand isn't greater than the tank capacity. Only
place
that should be a problem would be perhaps in the event of the
sprinklers
being in play, I would think.
Yep. I need to check the rating on the boost pump...
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Fire Sprinklers are probably the defining parameter here, and the
codes concerning this will probably assure that other problem won't
occur. Just make sure the sprinkler demands are met.
Bob |
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Bob F
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:28 am Post subject: Re: Well Question |
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"Rick Blaine" <dont@bother.com> wrote in message
news:9ctk7358cni42sefhnqi48e7bdo4l1ijrc@4ax.com...
| Quote: | "Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:
My hose faucet running full blast puts out about 15 gal/minute.
Well, the houses will have outdoor taps, but are prohibited from
doing any
irrigation. I suppose washing a vehicle could draw the amount you
indicated.
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So you can't even grow vegetables?
| Quote: |
No pressure tank? Does the pump run full time?
When water is being demanded, yes. Thought that was a little unusual
but the
other houses in the development use the same arrangement with no
problems.
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There must be some kind of reservoir to maintain pipe pressure until
water demand occurs. Or does the pump run continously if a faucet is
dripping slightly.
| Quote: |
Connecting the 2 pipes together before splitting to go 3 ways would
help assure that noone gets short-changed on water.
That was my first reaction, but now I'm not so sure. :)
If there is a problem, increasing the pump pressure should solve it.
(Bigger pump) I wouldn't expect it. Without watering usage, high
demands should be short lived. A pressure tank at your house could
solve that.
That's my backup plan if there's an issue. I'll just put a 1500 gal
storage tank
near the house and draw from that.
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That should almost never be necessary. This is of course dependent on
the "booster pump" at the source being strong enough. You could put a
booster pump at your end with a pressure switch to turn on only when
the supply pressure gets too low. The storage tank at your end
(storage? not pressure, right?) will mean you have to supply all the
electricity to pressurize your water - another expense.
You could increase the pipe size from the road to the houses, cutting
losses through the pipes, effectively making them "appear" shorter to
the pump, increasing the capacity of the system.
The fire sprinklers are probably the determining factor.
Bob |
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