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Tuomas Rantasalo
Guest
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 Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:02 pm Post subject: R13 refrigerant replacement |
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Greetings, fellow humans.
I'm in possession of one '92 Toyota Previa with A/C that needs filling
badly. The thing is that it has been using refrigerant of the type
"R13". And the a/c filling shops around here all claim never having
heard of such. Their response is along the lines: "It's R12, not R13.
There is no such thing as R13".
However there is "R13" printed on the instrument panel, below the
speedo, and I would be tempted to believe it is not just a practical
joke on behalf of frustrated Toyota workers.
So help me out here if you can. What kind of refrigerant (that is
commonly available) I can safely ask my friendly a/c shop to fill the
Previa up with?
- t |
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Thomas Tornblom
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: R13 refrigerant replacement |
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Tuomas Rantasalo <tuomas.rantasalo@iki.fi..NOSPAM> writes:
| Quote: | Greetings, fellow humans.
I'm in possession of one '92 Toyota Previa with A/C that needs filling
badly. The thing is that it has been using refrigerant of the type
"R13". And the a/c filling shops around here all claim never having
heard of such. Their response is along the lines: "It's R12, not
R13. There is no such thing as R13".
However there is "R13" printed on the instrument panel, below the
speedo, and I would be tempted to believe it is not just a practical
joke on behalf of frustrated Toyota workers.
So help me out here if you can. What kind of refrigerant (that is
commonly available) I can safely ask my friendly a/c shop to fill the
Previa up with?
- t
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Perhaps the last part of "R134a" has been lost? |
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lugnut
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: R13 refrigerant replacement |
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On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 11:23:13 GMT, Tuomas Rantasalo
<tuomas.rantasalo@iki.fi..NOSPAM> wrote:
| Quote: | Greetings, fellow humans.
I'm in possession of one '92 Toyota Previa with A/C that needs filling
badly. The thing is that it has been using refrigerant of the type
"R13". And the a/c filling shops around here all claim never having
heard of such. Their response is along the lines: "It's R12, not R13.
There is no such thing as R13".
However there is "R13" printed on the instrument panel, below the
speedo, and I would be tempted to believe it is not just a practical
joke on behalf of frustrated Toyota workers.
So help me out here if you can. What kind of refrigerant (that is
commonly available) I can safely ask my friendly a/c shop to fill the
Previa up with?
- t
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The only correct legal factory fills would have been either
R12 or R134a. The connections will be different. You will
not find an R13 for your vehicle. You simply have a couple
of missing characters.
Lugnut |
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Steve B.
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: R13 refrigerant replacement |
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On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 11:23:13 GMT, Tuomas Rantasalo
<tuomas.rantasalo@iki.fi..NOSPAM> wrote:
| Quote: | However there is "R13" printed on the instrument panel, below the
speedo, and I would be tempted to believe it is not just a practical
joke on behalf of frustrated Toyota workers.
|
There is no printing on the instrument panel to indicate what type
refrigerant the car uses. We can't tell you what the R13 stands for
without seeing a picture of it (and probably not even then).
Your system came from the factory with R12. Since R12 isn't as common
as it once was it may have been converted to R134a.
You **should** be able to tell which refrigerant is being used by
looking at the high and low pressure ports. R12 has a screw on
fitting that looks very much like the one on your tires.
R134a has a larger fitting and is not threaded
Look at http://www.aircondition.com/dsmobileac/ for a picture of the
two.
Systems don't just use refrigerant up. It is leasking somewhere. It
would be a good idea to have the system leak tested, repaired and then
filled.
R13 is/was used for flash freezing and to my knowledge was never used
in an automotive application.
Steve B. |
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Daniel J. Stern
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: R13 refrigerant replacement |
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On Thu, 14 Jul 2005, Tuomas Rantasalo wrote:
| Quote: | I'm in possession of one '92 Toyota Previa with A/C that needs filling
badly. The thing is that it has been using refrigerant of the type
"R13".
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No, it doesn't. There is no such thing as R13.
| Quote: | However there is "R13" printed on the instrument panel, below the
speedo, and I would be tempted to believe it is not just a practical
joke on behalf of frustrated Toyota workers.
|
What makes you think the "R13" on the instrument panel has anything to do
with your aircon system? For that matter, if you look closely at the type
approval markings on your door windows, you'll see "R43" printed there. By
your logic (ahem), you should be out there trying to get your A/C filled
with R43, right?
| Quote: | So help me out here if you can. What kind of refrigerant (that is
commonly available) I can safely ask my friendly a/c shop to fill the
Previa up with?
|
Originally, your '92 came with R12. It is possible somebody has converted
it to R134a. The instrument cluster is not the appropriate place to look
for the refrigerant ID label, which is under the hood. |
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Steve B.
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: R13 refrigerant replacement |
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On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:45:35 -0400, "Daniel J. Stern"
<dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote:
| Quote: |
No, it doesn't. There is no such thing as R13.
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Incorrect. There is no such thing as a drop in replacement for R12
but there is a refrigerant named R13.
R13: chlorotrifluoromethane
CFC13 is a supper Iow tempreture refrigerant, used in frosting unit,
in which the tempeture scope is -75~C.
Typical Properties:
Formula: CCIF3
Boiling Point (101.3KPa, ~C): -81.4
Freezing Point (~C): -181.1
Critical Temperature (~C): 28.9
Critical Pressure (KPa): 3868.0
Liquid Density (kg/m3): 1319.9
ODP: 1.0
GWP: 17.5
Package and Storage
Filling in 10, 13.6, 20, 50kg cylinders. It should be stored in cool,
dry and ventilated place and kept away from sun-
light and rain. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: R13 refrigerant replacement |
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"Steve B." <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:7mvcd1hnef6sh20ojfppcbkpn29fk62fnl@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:45:35 -0400, "Daniel J. Stern"
dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote:
No, it doesn't. There is no such thing as R13.
Incorrect. There is no such thing as a drop in replacement for R12
but there is a refrigerant named R13.
R13: chlorotrifluoromethane
CFC13 is a supper Iow tempreture refrigerant, used in frosting unit,
in which the tempeture scope is -75~C.
Typical Properties:
Formula: CCIF3
Boiling Point (101.3KPa, ~C): -81.4
Freezing Point (~C): -181.1
Critical Temperature (~C): 28.9
Critical Pressure (KPa): 3868.0
Liquid Density (kg/m3): 1319.9
ODP: 1.0
GWP: 17.5
Package and Storage
Filling in 10, 13.6, 20, 50kg cylinders. It should be stored in cool,
dry and ventilated place and kept away from sun-
light and rain.
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Correct, Steve. It DOES exist. I even found some chat where conversions
from R12 to R13
were being discussed. I somewhat doubt that the OP has this in his system,
but you never know
who might have done what to it at some stage. |
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Spud Demon
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:07 pm Post subject: Re: R13 refrigerant replacement |
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"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> writes in article <Pine.GSO.4.58.0507141044030.8224@alumni.engin.umich.edu> dated Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:45:35 -0400:
| Quote: | No, it doesn't. There is no such thing as R13.
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http://www.refrigerant-supply.com/references/r-13.htm
R-13 is Chlorotrifluoromethane
F
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F-C-Cl
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F
As opposed to R-12, which is Dichlorodifluoromethane
Cl
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F-C-Cl
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F
I'm not saying R-13 refrigerant has ever been used in cars, but it does exist.
-- spud_demon -at- thundermaker.net
The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer. |
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~^Johnny^~
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:03 pm Post subject: Re: R13 refrigerant replacement |
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:45:35 -0400, "Daniel J. Stern"
<dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote:
| Quote: | What makes you think the "R13" on the instrument panel has anything
to do with your aircon system?
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My old Renault R12 used R12... :-)
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Version: PGP 7.1
iQA/AwUBQtbghQIk7T39FC4ZEQLr1wCg5oYjTBF52AIsET+CgXRbZlJL1RwAnA8u
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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info |
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Daniel J. Stern
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:04 am Post subject: Re: R13 refrigerant replacement |
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On Thu, 14 Jul 2005, ~^Johnny^~ wrote:
| Quote: | What makes you think the "R13" on the instrument panel has anything to
do with your aircon system?
My old Renault R12 used R12... :-)
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I wonder if US-spec Renault R5s used R-LeCar? |
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Bill
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: R13 refrigerant |
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x-no-archive: yes
For what its worth, R13 was (and may still be ) used in vapor traps for
vacume systems typicaly found in laboratories (freeze dryers, etc). The idea
being to remove moisture before it gets to the vacume pump-- some cascade
systems got to around -120 C as I recall (I serviced these units about 20
years ago and as I am an old fart, my memory is not too good anymore---I
believe the refrigerant I used was actualy called R13B1)
"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.58.0507141903380.20169@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
| Quote: | On Thu, 14 Jul 2005, ~^Johnny^~ wrote:
What makes you think the "R13" on the instrument panel has anything to
do with your aircon system?
My old Renault R12 used R12... :-)
I wonder if US-spec Renault R5s used R-LeCar? |
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Daniel J. Stern
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: R13 refrigerant |
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On Sat, 16 Jul 2005, Bill wrote:
| Quote: | For what its worth, R13 was (and may still be ) used in vapor traps for
vacume systems typicaly found in laboratories (freeze dryers, etc). The
idea being to remove moisture before it gets to the vacume pump-- some
cascade systems got to around -120 C as I recall (I serviced these units
about 20 years ago and as I am an old fart, my memory is not too good
anymore---I believe the refrigerant I used was actualy called R13B1)
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Grand, but you really have to watch those suffixes. There are refrigerants
with the same number but different suffixes ("a" vs "A" vs "B" etc.) that
aren't the same thing.
And no car ever made has ever used R13-anysuffix. |
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John Kunkel
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: R13 refrigerant |
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"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.58.0507161011440.13617@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
| Quote: | On Sat, 16 Jul 2005, Bill wrote:
For what its worth, R13 was (and may still be ) used in vapor traps for
vacume systems typicaly found in laboratories (freeze dryers, etc). The
idea being to remove moisture before it gets to the vacume pump-- some
cascade systems got to around -120 C as I recall (I serviced these units
about 20 years ago and as I am an old fart, my memory is not too good
anymore---I believe the refrigerant I used was actualy called R13B1)
Grand, but you really have to watch those suffixes. There are refrigerants
with the same number but different suffixes ("a" vs "A" vs "B" etc.) that
aren't the same thing.
And no car ever made has ever used R13-anysuffix.
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Which obviously differs from your original statement "There is no such
thing as R13". |
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Daniel J. Stern
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 4:03 am Post subject: Re: R13 refrigerant |
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On Sat, 16 Jul 2005, John Kunkel wrote:
| Quote: | And no car ever made has ever used R13-anysuffix.
Which obviously differs from your original statement "There is no such
thing as R13".
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Context, John. It's a wonderful thing. |
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Bill
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:05 am Post subject: Re: R13 refrigerant |
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As you seem to consider your self an expert in this field, and probably,
most other fields, perhaps you can be more specific as to which suffix for
R-13 is used in what type of equipment---I am well aware of the need to use
the correct refrigerant- there is no question of "context" here----do you
know or will you have to do a google to come up with an answer?
"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.58.0507162326490.26565@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
| Quote: | On Sat, 16 Jul 2005, John Kunkel wrote:
And no car ever made has ever used R13-anysuffix.
Which obviously differs from your original statement "There is no such
thing as R13".
Context, John. It's a wonderful thing. |
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