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Arch
Guest
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 Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:00 pm Post subject: Some sticky questions |
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One surprising cause of so many shingles being separated from roof
sheeting during the hurricanes was that the plastic film covering the
adhesive wasn't removed at installation. Musing about it made me realize
that I didn't/don't know much about glues and adhesives. Ex. I had never
considered using bondo as an adhesive instead of as a filler and for our
nitpickers, glue is made from hide/gelatin and is an adhesive, but all
adhesives are not glues. I reckon purists adhere with chemicals and glue
with hide. :)
There is a wealth of info on the net: ex. the Natural Handyman page
about glues and adhesives, but we turners seem to learn best from our
member's sharing their expertise here.
Many different adhesives have been discussed separately on rcw, but I
(and maybe a few of you) hadn't really considered adhesives overall:
toxicity, strength, waterproof, waterbased, set-up time, flexibility,
melt temps., cost, hardness, ease of machining or sanding just for
starters.
I hope you turners will respond from your knowledge and experience in
using _all the adhesives suitable for the turning shop. There's a lot I
don't know, but want to learn about this sticky subject. TIA.
Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter
http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
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Ray Sandusky
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: Some sticky questions |
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Arch
I have settled on using CA Thin and Thick for the majority of the sticky
requirements I run into.
In the past, I have used Titebond, Gorilla Glue, 2 part Epoxy and Spray on
3M Super
All of these are useful, but I am more concerned about the viscosity of the
thin CA going into the small cracks and between bark edges. I use the thick
CA for inlays and filling small voids if I ever find one to fill - as you
know I only turn perfect wood and never see a void or a crack or even a bark
inclusion!
The most difficult glue I have ever run into is Gorilla Glue - it bubbles
and oozes out of the bonded section and is not a quick bonding as I would
like - but who am I to criticize a well known and useful material?!
Ray |
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billh
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:36 pm Post subject: Re: Some sticky questions |
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If I recall correctly, the instructions specifically say not to remove the
plastic strip when installing shingles.
Billh
"Arch" <almcc@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:23153-41978118-20@storefull-3178.bay.webtv.net...
| Quote: | One surprising cause of so many shingles being separated from roof
sheeting during the hurricanes was that the plastic film covering the
adhesive wasn't removed at installation. Musing about it made me realize
that I didn't/don't know much about glues and adhesives. Ex. I had never
considered using bondo as an adhesive instead of as a filler and for our
nitpickers, glue is made from hide/gelatin and is an adhesive, but all
adhesives are not glues. I reckon purists adhere with chemicals and glue
with hide. :)
There is a wealth of info on the net: ex. the Natural Handyman page
about glues and adhesives, but we turners seem to learn best from our
member's sharing their expertise here.
Many different adhesives have been discussed separately on rcw, but I
(and maybe a few of you) hadn't really considered adhesives overall:
toxicity, strength, waterproof, waterbased, set-up time, flexibility,
melt temps., cost, hardness, ease of machining or sanding just for
starters.
I hope you turners will respond from your knowledge and experience in
using _all the adhesives suitable for the turning shop. There's a lot I
don't know, but want to learn about this sticky subject. TIA.
Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter
http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings
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Owen Davies
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:08 pm Post subject: OT (Was: Re: Some sticky questions) |
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Arch wrote:
| Quote: | One surprising cause of so many shingles being separated from roof
sheeting during the hurricanes was that the plastic film covering the
adhesive wasn't removed at installation.
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We found the same thing. But it could be worse. My sister lives on the
water in Punta Gorda. When she and my brother-in-law went up to replace
shingles, they found that the plywood was barely tied down. One sheet
had all of six nails in it, only two of which had actually hit the
trusses. They are now re-doing the whole roof. Makes me wonder about
our roof!
All of which reminds me of one friend who moved to Key West and had no
trouble finding work with local contractors, though he had no
professional building experience. He was also a drunk and, unless he
changed his ways to make a good impression, worked with a beer in easy
reach. However, he was a New Hampshire drunk; he actually showed up for
work, put in a full day's work, and bothered to do it right. None of
the contractors expected that from the locals.
Owen Davies |
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George
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:20 pm Post subject: Re: Some sticky questions |
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Absolutely. The strip is there to keep them from adhering to each other in
the package. The reveal used on installation should put the fresh tar off
of the strip.
"billh" <NoMail@Post2Newsgroup.Pls> wrote in message
news:EJMld.3661$Ho4.137725@news20.bellglobal.com...
| Quote: | If I recall correctly, the instructions specifically say not to remove the
plastic strip when installing shingles.
Billh
"Arch" <almcc@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:23153-41978118-20@storefull-3178.bay.webtv.net...
One surprising cause of so many shingles being separated from roof
sheeting during the hurricanes was that the plastic film covering the
adhesive wasn't removed at installation. |
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Arch
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:26 am Post subject: Re: Some sticky questions |
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So much for rec.crafts.roofing. It was a poor can opener.  How about
your opinions re the characteristics of various glues and adhesives used
in your turning shops? Are the 3/8" transparent glue sticks and little
glue guns from craft shops satisfactory for holding 8" green blanks?
Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter
http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
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Owen Davies
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:32 am Post subject: Re: Some sticky questions |
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George wrote:
| Quote: | Absolutely. The strip is there to keep them from adhering to each other in
the package. The reveal used on installation should put the fresh tar off
of the strip.
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Sorry, but I don't quite understand that. I have been doing an excess
of shingle replacement in the wake of the Florida hurricanes, and those
strips are still on all the old shingles. There is no sign that any of
the shingles have adhered to the one underneath, as it seems they would
have done if the (paper, in this case) strips had been removed. And if
that is not the purpose of that band of tar, I can't think what it would be.
FWIW, in my ignorance I have been pulling the cellophane strip off the
tar and expect the shingles to survive the next hurricane a lot better
as a result.
Owen Davies |
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John Coulombe
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:54 am Post subject: Re: Some sticky questions |
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Only if you are extremely bored and looking for some excitement <grin>
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:26:39 -0500, almcc@webtv.net (Arch) wrote:
| Quote: | So much for rec.crafts.roofing. It was a poor can opener. How about
your opinions re the characteristics of various glues and adhesives used
in your turning shops? Are the 3/8" transparent glue sticks and little
glue guns from craft shops satisfactory for holding 8" green blanks?
Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter
http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
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George
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:34 am Post subject: Re: Some sticky questions |
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Why, don't you have a chuck?
Working with faceplates is just too much trouble, and a lot of the
techniques used for centering and holding are imitations of what a chuck
does.
"Arch" <almcc@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:17264-4197B16F-58@storefull-3177.bay.webtv.net...
| Quote: | So much for rec.crafts.roofing. It was a poor can opener. How about
your opinions re the characteristics of various glues and adhesives used
in your turning shops? Are the 3/8" transparent glue sticks and little
glue guns from craft shops satisfactory for holding 8" green blanks?
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George
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:58 am Post subject: Re: Some sticky questions |
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You'd be better to pay attention to what really holds the shingles.
http://www.fema.gov/txt/hazards/ra_no_2.txt
http://www.fairharbor.com/home_const_roofing.htm
"Owen Davies" <owen5819@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:bMadnbTQTI9yXQrcRVn-2w@adelphia.com...
| Quote: | George wrote:
Absolutely. The strip is there to keep them from adhering to each other
in
the package. The reveal used on installation should put the fresh tar
off
of the strip.
Sorry, but I don't quite understand that. I have been doing an excess
of shingle replacement in the wake of the Florida hurricanes, and those
strips are still on all the old shingles. There is no sign that any of
the shingles have adhered to the one underneath, as it seems they would
have done if the (paper, in this case) strips had been removed. And if
that is not the purpose of that band of tar, I can't think what it would
be.
FWIW, in my ignorance I have been pulling the cellophane strip off the
tar and expect the shingles to survive the next hurricane a lot better
as a result.
Owen Davies |
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Darrell Feltmate
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:16 am Post subject: Re: Some sticky questions |
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Arch
I use regular glue sticks and a 40 watt gun. One of these days I hope to
find an 80 watt gun but just because it will speed up the heating process.
The regular glue gun and glue sticks work well for me.
By the way George, face plates came first, I believe, and chucks imitate the
actions of facepaltes and glue blocks. That said, a chuck is often a useful
item.
--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com |
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Jim Gott
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:29 am Post subject: Re: Some sticky questions |
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<< Are the 3/8" transparent glue sticks and little
glue guns from craft shops satisfactory for holding 8" green blanks?
Arch,
I'm not sure I'd trust hot melt glue for holding a blank to a glue block. The
type I've used before is mostly for craft-type applications, and it never gets
really hard, and it's not that difficult to pry pieces apart that have been
glued with it.
Better to use thick CA glue. Christian Burchard uses thick CA on the glue block
and sprays accelerator on the blank before mating it to the glue block. It sets
up in seconds and he's ready to go. He works with wet madrone blanks a lot and
it works for him.
Before using hot melt glue I'd do a test--glue two pieces together and then pry
them apart with a screw driver or chisel. You'll probably find that it will
cleanly separate from at least one of the surfaces.
-Jim Gott-
San Jose, CA |
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billh
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:59 am Post subject: Re: Some sticky questions |
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The shingles have an uncovered tar band on the top surface where the bottom
of the tabs on the shingle above will rest when installed. This then bonds
the tabs to the shingle below.
On the bottom of the shingle is the strip of cellophane which lies on top of
the tar strip of the shingle below when the shingles are packaged. This
keeps them from sticking together when they are in the packaging. Of course,
if it gets too hot they do stick and you have to cool them off to get them
unstuck without damage.
Billh
"Owen Davies" <owen5819@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:bMadnbTQTI9yXQrcRVn-2w@adelphia.com...
| Quote: | George wrote:
Absolutely. The strip is there to keep them from adhering to each other
in
the package. The reveal used on installation should put the fresh tar
off
of the strip.
Sorry, but I don't quite understand that. I have been doing an excess of
shingle replacement in the wake of the Florida hurricanes, and those
strips are still on all the old shingles. There is no sign that any of
the shingles have adhered to the one underneath, as it seems they would
have done if the (paper, in this case) strips had been removed. And if
that is not the purpose of that band of tar, I can't think what it would
be.
FWIW, in my ignorance I have been pulling the cellophane strip off the tar
and expect the shingles to survive the next hurricane a lot better as a
result.
Owen Davies |
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Ken Moon
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:11 am Post subject: Re: Some sticky questions |
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"George" <george@least> wrote in message
news:4197e1d5_2@newspeer2.tds.net...
George,
From reading those references, it is apparent that the fasteners are to be
used as the primary force to hold the shingles in place. However, the FEMA
site had the following:
"After the shingles have been exposed to sufficient sunshine to activate the
sealant, inspect roofing to ensure that the tabs have sealed. Also, shingles
should be of “interlocking” type if seal strips are not present. "
That indicates to me that they also expect the sealant should be exposed to
the one underneath, or am I missing something?
Ken Moon
Webberville, TX |
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Ralph
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:24 am Post subject: Re: Some sticky questions |
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I've been using hot glue for about 3 years now. I use either a glue gun
to glue down the faceplate or dip the face plate into a "vat" of hot
glue depending on the size and weight of the blank. In preperation for
gluing the faceplate I first blow any dust of the wood and in the case
of heavier pieces I heat the faceplate first.
This has worked in about 98% of My Work, which I think is pretty good
since I have had some pieces leave the faceplate or chuck no matter what
method I used.
Jim Gott wrote:
| Quote: | Are the 3/8" transparent glue sticks and little
glue guns from craft shops satisfactory for holding 8" green blanks?
BR><BR
Arch,
I'm not sure I'd trust hot melt glue for holding a blank to a glue block. The
type I've used before is mostly for craft-type applications, and it never gets
really hard, and it's not that difficult to pry pieces apart that have been
glued with it.
Better to use thick CA glue. Christian Burchard uses thick CA on the glue block
and sprays accelerator on the blank before mating it to the glue block. It sets
up in seconds and he's ready to go. He works with wet madrone blanks a lot and
it works for him.
Before using hot melt glue I'd do a test--glue two pieces together and then pry
them apart with a screw driver or chisel. You'll probably find that it will
cleanly separate from at least one of the surfaces.
-Jim Gott-
San Jose, CA |
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